Webinar: Diversity, equity and inclusion support

Transcript

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This page has the transcript of the Diversity, equity and inclusion support webinar held on 14 October 2025. You can also see additional questions we gave written answers to during or after the webinar.

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Panellists and presenters:

Welcome and introductions

Shemain Wahab

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to this webinar where we'll discuss the findings and share reflections from our review of diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) support provided to organisations we fund through Funding Plus. We're really pleased that so many of you could join us today, and hope that you find it useful. So my name is Shemain Wahab, and I'm the Impact Support Manager here at Esmée. I manage Funding Plus, which is capacity building support we provide to organisations we fund to help them achieve greater impact. We'll spend the next half hour sharing findings from the review, and we'll hear from organisations that took part in the review and use the rest of the time to answer questions.

For accessibility, we have Gloria and Altan, who will be providing British Sign Language interpretation and interpreting what's spoken live. To make sure they're always on view, we recommend keeping your view on gallery view, including when the sides are shared. We've also asked our speakers to describe themselves and where they are.

So I'll begin by saying I am a petite woman of mixed Asian heritage with brown skin, dark brown eyes, black hair in braids, and I'm standing in my makeshift study alongside a black freezer and random shelving behind me. I just want to provide a bit of context before we start the presentation.

So diversity, equity and inclusion support was first specified in the funding plus offer in 2020 after receiving more requests in response to the growing awareness of organisations to examine bias, discrimination and systemic behaviours. We saw that approaches to DEI work chosen by organisations varied widely depending on specific needs and circumstances, as did the delivery methods and also the cost of delivering the support. So we decided to commission some research to better understand the pros and cons of the different approaches to diversity, equity and inclusion, so what works, what doesn't, and in what circumstances, so that we can better advise funded organisations to understand what organisations think we and other funders should do to continue to support diversity, equity, inclusion work, and then to help shape our internal diversity, equity, inclusion work and our and progress our DEI commitments.

So without further delay, I'm going to hand over to the research team to present the findings.

Taslim Tharani

Great. So over to you, Theresa, to start us off.

Theresa Jones

Great. Thank you, Tas. Hi everyone. I'm Theresa Jones. I'm a black woman with dark hair sitting in a room with a white background. I'm the founder of Luminance Insight, an independent research company that shines a spotlight on overlooked truths to help organisations make decisions with tangible impact. I'm compelled to do what I do because I see how easy it is for dominant narratives to go unchallenged, even despite the best of intentions. So my mission is to create equitable pathways to change, using research as a tool, and I work holistically across sectors, with teams that are focused on justice, equity and sustainability.

Amira Tharani

Is it over to me next? Great. So I'm Amira. I'm a researcher and evaluated by training, and I was one of the three members of the evaluation team on this project. I am a South Asian woman with pale skin, short, dark brown hair, brown eyes and glasses, and I'm sitting in my home office, which is also my second bedroom, and you can see the cupboards behind me.

So I was really drawn to this project because my work has also increasingly started specialising in power, participation, inclusion and equity and justice, and really, my mission is to ensure that the insights that we gain from research lead to meaningful change, and that reports don't just sit on the shelf. This is why I'm really excited to be part of a webinar explaining our findings today, and finally, I'll hand it to Tas.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. So I'm Taslim or Tas, and I'm also a fair skinned South Asian woman with long, dark brown hair and very, very dark brown eyes. They're almost black. I'm wearing a black top and a chiffon shawl, and I have a white background behind me, and I'm sitting in my open plan living living space at home.

I'm an organisational and coaching psychologist and part of the research team, and I bring a combination of psychology of lived experience and also real curiosity across the coaching facilitation and research that I do, and I really care about generating, generating insights that can have practical outcomes, so that we can really start to shift culture. We can start to shift leadership towards more equitable and inclusive spaces so that essentially nurture, more caring, more reflective, more sustainable, more relational, ways of leading and working.

Background

Theresa Jones

So these five circles represent the different stages of the project. So just a quick review of the project at a glance. So firstly, the launch allowed us to align with Esmée on the review goals, expectations for the project and also ways of working. And then that was followed by the desk research stage, which was the review of the existing materials. And we had quite a lot to go from as well. So that included key information from the funding, plus bids, impact reports and also information about the practitioner summaries as well. And then we gathered feedback. So we started doing our semi structured interviews, and we had written evaluations as well. And then that followed by what was followed by the interim debrief. So that was really a halfway check in to present the initial findings and what we were starting to hear from organisations. And it was a great opportunity to reconnect with Esmée a and also agree on next steps. And then finally the reporting stage, which was the write up and presentation, and we had an internal session, and then the external sharing, so the report is live, and today is also a follow up to that as well. And so I'll continue on with a bit more information about the project.

So the research involved 26 projects. So that was 26 projects across different organisations, or 26 funded organisations. And these really were, you know, we also referred to the impact reports across all of the of the organisations. And everyone that we didn't interview also had the opportunity to submit optional reflections in a short survey. So across the 10 organisations that we did interview, we heard from two people per organisation to understand the organisational journey from both perspectives. So we did 20 interviews in total. This had the benefit of adding layers to the stories, and so combining that with our earlier desk research, we had the information for the funding bid, we had the reflections in the impact reports, and then we had multi layered insights and reflections further beyond that as well. So in some cases they were the interviews had taken place six months after the project had ended. In other cases, it may have been a year or more.

So we had a lot of a lot of layers to the project, in terms of the reflections, the DEI focus for the interview projects was mainly across these main areas. So general, DEI with race as well the four projects, the intersection of disability and race with two projects, and disability with one project. And again, this is the the the organisations that we spoke to, and then the areas of Esmée strategy really focused on mainly a fairer future. So that was 16 projects of the 26 followed by Creative, Confident Communities with five projects. Our Natural World with four projects, and one infrastructure projects. And these projects were a mixture of UK wide and specific locations, and I'll hand over to Amira next.

Report findings

Amira Tharani

Thank you. So just before I start to explain about how organisations engaged with DEI support, I'll just give a quick outline of what we're going to speak to. So we'll say a little bit just here about the ways in which organisations use the funding for DEI support. We'll give you a quick overview of the key themes that we found in our research, and then we'll do a little bit of deep dive into the enablers and barriers, into the outcomes, and then the recommendations for organisations looking for DEI support and for funders.

So just to start with, we found that there was a real diversity in how organisations actually engaged with the support that was provided for them. But most organisations work with providers over a period of several months, rather than in wild engagement, and all of those engagements were bespoke to the organisations. Most organisations opted for a combination of training and consultancy. So often there was an audit or a survey that was then followed by training workshop that was then followed by some coaching. And alongside that, there might have been some development or co-development. There were a couple of specific organisations where they did focus really on training, where there was a really clear need identified, and what then happened was that the provider worked really closely with the organisation to design that training so that it met the organisation's needs. And we can say a little bit more about that as we move forward.

So then, just to pick up the key themes of the research that we found if we go to the next slide. So the first thing I think we've we've already picked up, which is that there was a real variation of journeys for the different organisations. Organisations were at different starting points. They had different needs and they had different capacity to engage with providers, not then the tailored support was really important. Organisations really needed someone who could meet their specific needs and align their DEI methods and approaches with the organisation's goals. We also found that those organisations that already had a culture of being relational or being vulnerable with each other and having a learning approach tended to benefit more from the DEI support that they that they received. And also, we found that those organisations where DEI was integrated, not just into HR, but into strategy and operations and project delivery generally, there was a stronger impact across those and I think there's a quote that will pop up in a second.

So one of our interviewees said, "You can do all you want with recruitment and representation, but if the impact of your EDI work on the community you serve isn't transformative, it isn't going to go anywhere."

And that just outlines really how ambitious a lot of the organisations were. I think I mean over to Theresa next for the next bit.

Theresa Jones

Yes, thank you. Amira. So we also heard that the partnerships shaped the practice, and by that, we meant it was really the work of the practitioner and the organisation coming together that shaped the way that the projects then were implemented. So the provider characteristics of the of the work were also important, the DEI provider characteristics, and I'll be going into those in more detail on the next slide. But we also heard that building safety and adding structure and rebalancing power were seen by interviewees as particularly transformational for organisational DEI, and that was something that partnerships were able to do quite well.

And our quote here is, "One thing that was good for us was that initial trust building. I've heard about other situations where it's gone badly, and there have been these big, open conversations that bring up a lot of pain and then lead people to crack on. You have to be wary of exposing black and minority staff to the ignorance of their colleagues."

So that just really speaks to, you know, the skill of the partners to be able to hold all of these vulnerabilities and everybody who's on different journeys together to be able to move forward collectively. And I'll pass over to Taz.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. So yeah. So another key theme that we saw was this, and we saw this across most of the interviews, was the challenge, actually, in understanding the kind of theory and the kind of more academic side and the kind of knowledge side, but really then being able to translate that over into practice and a real acknowledgement that this takes time, and also that one, it was really interesting. One of the things that we found was, how do we do that? How do we do that translation process? How do we actually enable people to take what they're learning and really put it into practice? And one of the things that quite a lot of organisations spoke to was really building a shared language across the organisation, so people had the language and the skills to be able to have those conversations, especially if some of those conversations were more difficult. And we also found that where providers were able to offer some tools and some frameworks that also supported that shared language that really, again enabled people to have some of those conversations, but also start to really put things into practice as well. But we also found that this process is often constrained by by short-term project based funding, which actually could limit the space for strategic planning or organisational development as well. So there was a real call for longer term funding, funding approaches which we'll speak to about a little bit later as well.

And we pulled this quote out for this which is which reads, "So for instance, when the riots happened over the summer, I think that the team felt more comfortable having something to say about it than what than than they might have, because we accepted that we are going to be vulnerable in this."

And this actually came from the white supremacy culture toolkit, where one of one of those characteristics is perfectionism. And so that gave the organisation the language to be able to say, well, we we're still learning and we're still growing, but it's important that we put something out there, even if it's it's not kind of perfect. And so that kind of demonstrates how that shared language enabled those conversations to happen so that more action could could take take place. Theresa -

Theresa Jones

Absolutely and on that language and the time needed to have those open conversations, it really ties into that general feeling across our interviews that we were hearing that Esmée's funding plus support is very well placed to really enable capacity building, the fact that it is specific funding for this that allows people, allows that kind of safety, to to have the conversations, to build a shared language and to bring themselves in a more vulnerable place, together with each other.

We also heard that flexible and light touch support was really valued by organisations, and they felt that this was really offered throughout by Esmée and that also this, all of this together, provided safe and open spaces for progress, which was seen as key. And there was a general feeling as well. But among the organisations that we heard from was that peer learning opportunities could really strengthen the impact and maintain momentum. We have a quote about this as well.

So from this interview, this quote reads, "I've always found those sorts of things, peer networks, really useful to meet with other organisations and be able to put those topics together and have some expert speakers, so that we get inspire."

And on the subject of enablers, which we touched on just a moment ago, there this, this round flow flow chart shows the three key enablers that made it easier for projects to have a wider impact across the organisations. So these were the provider and their skill, their knowledge, their sensitivity and the knowledge of the organisation. Also we had the organisational culture so that readiness, the DEI commitment, and a relational and curious learning culture. And thirdly, we had a clear vision and parameters for the project. So that happened really before all the other things. So clarity of the vision and also of the ask at the funding stage, and these were described as really setting the tone for the projects and how they were implemented, felt and embedded within organisations, and I'll hand over to Tas.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. And we also identified a real mix of barriers as well. So some challenges that emerged when we were when we were speaking with the organisations. So I'm going to focus on the internal barriers. So these are some of the barriers within the organisations. And then Amira is going to focus in a moment on the external barriers, which are the more kind of systemic, systemic barriers that organisations might come across.

So one of one of the first ones was actually capacity and conflicting commitments. So even if there was a real intention to want to engage in this work, there sometimes were some quite logistical challenges. And I know Jericho will speak to some of this later. So there was something here around, how do we create innovative ways to make training and workshops or culture change products really, really accessible. And I know that Esmée's flexibility really supported, supported with this.

We also found that although strong leadership buy in is was really common, where that wasn't the case, so where there was maybe a disconnect, maybe with, for example, with the trust, the trustee boards, it was much harder to ensure that the funding was spent and what it was intended for, and to embed the work across the organisation and then a little bit about the misalignment. So this is where we found that organisations like Theresa said who had really clear parameters and really knew what they wanted, and therefore to communicate that really clearly with providers really benefited. And there were, there were, there were a couple of occasions where misalignment occurred, whether that was within the organisation or maybe sometimes between the organisation and the provider. And so there's something that we would really encourage, which is building in, like, continuous checkpoints throughout the throughout the project, so that if there are any misalignments and that they that we can make sure that everyone kind of comes back, comes back together on the same page.

And then a really big one is fear, right? Like we, we heard about, really fear of getting it wrong, and, you know, letting down minoritised communities, and how that can actually sometimes be a barrier to just even getting started. And so there is something again here that I think is about, how do we, how do we plan to work with with these fears and with these anxieties when we're engaging in this work, which can be quite challenging and quite quite complex. So handing it to the Amira.

Amira Tharani

Thank you. So those were some of the internal barriers within organisations, but most of the organisations we spoke to also really kind of highlighted particular external barriers, and in particular the sort of short-termism that they were working within that was a result of funding constraints. So many of the organisations, they've got, all of them, much of their income comes from project based funding. Sometimes that's one year, sometimes that's two years. Sometimes that's even shorter than that, without core or ring face, ring fence, long-term funding, the organisations were really struggling to embed lasting change, so they really benefited from the money that was there for fund the plus. But then when they had to find that money from another pot, they often couldn't, because those other parts were ring fenced, or were project based, or were not usable for DEI work. And so that made it really hard to sustain momentum and to prioritise. And because of that kind of short-term project based funding funding system, it's often harder for charities to embed any kind of change, whether that's DEI or whether that's something else, because often there's very high staff turnover, because people are on short-term contracts, because people are on project based contracts, and because there are just so many competing priorities.

One of our interviewees really spoke to this, and said there are always so many competing priorities, and it's so difficult to make plans when you don't quite know what on earth has happened to your organisation in six months time. And they found this a real challenge, not just in embedding DEI support, but generally trying to develop as an organisation. So we talked about the enablers and barriers. Let's talk about the difference that the supports actually made. And we found that the projects, the DEI support, had outcomes at five levels of increasing levels of kind of organisational complexity and embeddedness, and these depended on the organisation's starting point, internal culture, and kind of support that was provided. So level one was really around personal learning and transformation. And all the organisations we spoke to saw outcomes at this level, that individuals within the organisation, or sometimes groups within the organisation, learned some new theoretical frameworks, but also shifted their assumptions, changed their mental models, perhaps built new relationships, perhaps had a different emotional response to something than they might otherwise have done. And so those personal transformations were really important. They're the absolute core starting point for any future change. And so one of the one of our interviewees, and this was this was really common across several different organisations. I think we know from conversations with staff that it's just opened their eyes to different ways of thinking and understanding of what somebody might have been through and how things might impact. That says growth empathy and understanding of people with different lived experience from their own was often the starting point to build future change. From there, organisations moved to action planning and strategy. And again, most organisations managed to make some change in this area, so they had some sort of plan for next steps. It didn't just stop at personal learning. They were able to at least plan for what they were going to do next.

And if we go to the quote from that so, one organisation told us, "So our next three year strategy is in progress. EDI is already one of the enabling change goals that we've identified that will underpin our priority."

And again, several organisations said something very similar to this, that they were embedding EDI into their strategies. Where it was beginning to work, there were also then changes in staff experience and demographics. So either minority staff were having a better experience of being at work and thriving at work, or the actual organisational demographic was beginning to change that maybe there were new staff or volunteers or trustees were coming from a wider range of backgrounds, and sometimes both of these things were the case.

So here's a here's a quote that illustrates that. So this is about the the experience of some minoritised staff, and from the manager's perspective, "It's about having that conversation. What is it that you need from us to be at your best? What is it that you need us to do to enable you to function within the workplace? But it's all very individually based. So it's not just because you're autistic, X, Y and Z happens. The real growth of understanding that individuals with particular needs and particular profiles might lead an individualised approach to their support, and that led to those individuals being able to thrive at work."

Next level up was changes to project delivery. So some organisations really focused on this. This was the thing they really wanted out of the out of the DEI support. They actually wanted to deliver projects in ways that were more inclusive and that they wanted to work with partners from minority backgrounds in better ways, or they wanted to communicate differently. And we've already seen one change to communications in terms of one organisation responding to the riots.

So the example here is an organisation that said, "Anytime we make a funding application, we now include budget to work with by and for organisations to recognise their contribution in terms of remediation and all that, also their expertise."

So this was an organisation that wasn't led by informed, minoritised groups, but that partnered with several such organisations that was big, that was now really clear about the importance of remunerating them properly and making sure their contribution, in terms of expertise, was recognised. There's still an area where there's there's a lot of work to be done in the sector, so it was really good to see organisations beginning to move towards this.

And then finally, some organisation's source of impact at strategic and organisational levels. This was the most difficult because it required embedding a new way of being across the whole organisations. Larger, more complex organisations inevitably found this more challenging, but there were some glimmers of shifts in strategy or shifts in overall culture.

But I think the quote here just illustrates how difficult it is to do this. And so it says, "There's like pockets of practice which makes it really hard to achieve consistency or standardisation. If we've been involved or we have lived experience, there is more likely to be good practice."

So often, what happened was that when staff were closer to the work, they tended to embed it into their own practice, but it was harder to spread that across the organisations where staff hadn't had first hand access to the DEI support. So I think I'll pause there and then hand over to Taz for the recommendations.

Recommendations

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. Amira, so yeah, just a few recommendations for organisations seeking DEI support. So the first one is really around being honest about where you are in your DEI journey, and sometimes providers can really support organisations in essentially figuring that out, and especially larger organisations, you'll have different pockets who are at different kind of places on their journeys, and that really helps identify what are the key steps that you that you need within your organisation, and therefore can really support you in finding the right provider to also support you with that.

The second thing that that we found is that, how do we or the question is, you know, how do we maintain momentum after the support from partners or providers essentially conclude? And so there's something really key here, around around, really taking that time to identify what those additional resources that you might need as an organisation, and what those next steps might be to help you maintain that momentum and to really embed that learning and that change and finally, confidence is really key. And what I mean by this is really thinking about who within the organisation has the confidence to lead this work effectively. And sometimes it isn't the CEO, sometimes it might be somebody else within the organisation who might be closer to some of this work. And this is again, really important, because there are going to be challenging conversations to have, both within the organisation and externally, with the providers. And so having someone with that confidence, we found really, really made quite, quite a difference in terms of, in terms of the in terms of the the impact. I hand over to Theresa.

Theresa Jones

Thanks Tas. So before I wrap up, we know it's been a whistle stop tour going through the research, but these slides can be found in the full report with more quotes and summaries, which is live on Esmée's website. So in terms of recommendations to funders, you know, the question really was, what could funders do to support organisational DEI journeys? And this slide shows some three key three key areas that we heard, often from across our interviews and also in our surveys as well. So what we heard in our interviews was that funders should really consider follow ups, things like longer term programmes to keep the momentum up, tailored support for senior leadership teams to drive and also keep shaping the culture change, additional funding for refresher training and periodic follow up sessions to capture growth, especially as teams change as well.

Organisations also recommended that funders take steps to shift the funding landscape, and by that, we were hearing that there were ideas around setting expectations for funding and evaluation criteria, so adding in some questions around accountability, also diversifying the support to make it more accessible, offering DEI support alongside grant funding so that organisations don't have to apply for it separately, and then, in general, offering more unrestricted funding.

And then lastly, we also heard that funders are very well placed to facilitate peer learning, and that they could consider using their power in the sector to, you know, bring organisations together for cross organisational learning for DEI support and also wider operational tools. We heard from one organisation that actually talked about wanting to learn more about how they could improve their CRM, or they had just started using a CRM tool, and would really welcome the chance to just convene with other organisations and learn about how to use that, because that would obviously free up some capacity to be able to use elsewhere and also on DEI work. So thinking laterally as well really helps there too, but also, funders can consider creating content webinars and events to sustain sustain focus. And actually, this webinar and some case studies that we've put together is actually part of that. So that kind of answers that, or it begins to to answer that, that ask, really, of ways that organisations can learn from each other. You know, just questions like, What? What were things? What were things that were being asked? Who did people work with? How did the project go? What were the challenges, things like that, that organisations can sort of learn from each other, really, on those journeys? But yeah, that's it, from the research side of things, I'll hand over to Tas and the panel.

Q&A

Taslim Tharani

Thank you so much. Thanks so much, Theresa and Amira for joining me and sharing all of that and summarising some of the key findings from our research report. So we're now going to move on to a Q&A with all of you. So we'd really love to hear any questions that you might have, any questions about the report, any questions that you might want to ask our panel members, which who I'm going to introduce in a moment. But I might just pause here to give you an opportunity to pop some questions into the Q&A to get us to get us going, really.

So, we are delighted to welcome our panelists to the Q&A, and I'm going to briefly tell you who they are, and then invite them in a moment to introduce themselves.

So firstly, we have Dawn Hall, who is the People Support and HR Manager at Jericho. We also have Kevin Walsh, who is joint CEO and Executive Director at Graeae Theatre Company, and we also have Saba Shafi, who is the CEO at The Advocacy Academy as well.

And so in a moment, I will ask the panel members to introduce themselves and share a little bit more about their DEI journey with Funding Plus, and then we will start to respond to some of the questions that are coming in from the Q&A box. And just to let you know that if we have a lot of questions, and if we're not able to answer all of them today, we will endeavour to answer them after today's session, and the answers will be shared alongside the recording after the webinar.

So just to get us going, I'm going to invite Saba first just to share a little bit about you, about your organisation and about the work that you did with Funding Plus.

Saba Shafi

Thanks. Hi everybody. My name is Saba Shafi, and I'm the CEO of The Advocacy Academy. I use the pronouns she/they. The Advocacy Academy is a youth organising movement. We support young people with lived experience of injustice to take political action to secure lasting change for themselves and their communities.

I'm a British Pakistani woman in her late 30s. I've got brown hair. My hair is black. It's currently tied back in a ponytail. I'm also wearing a green jumper, sitting in my apartment, and you can see shelves and a kitchen in the background.

Much of The Advocacy Academy's work is rooted in social justice, and we try to embody our values as much as possible in the work that we do. We oftentimes, sometimes fall short of this. At the same time, we are often more comfortable and more aware of the experience of different lines of oppression. We are also increasingly comfortable with getting things wrong, understanding harm, and moving towards repair.

We're most interested in using the funding that we received to identify two targeted providers to support us on, first, better understanding the experiences relating to black masculinity, and two, making our spaces more accessible, specifically for those with neurodivergence.

Over the 10 years that you've been working, the demographics of our young people have been tilting towards a greater percentage of young women and non-binary young people. This has also been reflected in our staff team. We wanted to secure an advisor and or a trainer to help us better understand the trends that we were seeing and support any investments into the team going forward. We struggled to find someone with this intersection in full who would also be able to speak to our organisation at a sort of secondary depth of expertise and experience. We instead were able to have some facilitated reflection spaces with the team and discuss broader issues of race. We were also able to speak to some people who had lived experience of black masculinity in the UK.

With a broader set of expertise and experience already in the team, we were able to make some considerable structural changes and some targeted hiring. We were also invested in specific partnerships across the organisations, like, for example, with Football Beyond Borders and Spiral, to support our broader growth as an organisation in reaching these young people and also developing our understanding of what that would require. We also noted that the organisation could do more for our staff and young people who are neurodivergent. We invested our work into bringing on an advisor to offer training and targeted follow-up to the team around how specifically neurodivergence can manifest in the workplace.

In the months since, we have agreed on a new set of processes and coordination for supporting Access to Work applications. However, I think something to note was that the team did feedback that they felt that this training was too shallow and they were hoping for something with more depth. I think this has been a consistent challenge that we have faced as an organisation, in bringing in external contractors. We are also engaging, albeit after some delay, with an offer for coaching for the senior leadership team, which we believe will support leadership and navigating some of these challenges that we will face as an organisation.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. Thanks so much, Saba for sharing your overview there. I'd now like to pass over to Dawn to share a little bit more about your journey.

Dawn Hall

Thanks, Tas. So, I'm Dawn Hall, as Tas already said, I'm the People Support Manager at Jericho. You may not have heard of us, but Jericho is a Birmingham based employment charity that's been working in the city for over 30 years. We primarily work with survivors of modern slavery who frequently have experienced trauma and we also run an apprenticeship programme, and what we found in recent times is that we've had a significant proportion of our apprentices who come to us who are neurodiverse and typically on the ASD spectrum, so this was the focus of our work with Esmée.

I'm currently sat in an internal meeting room in one of our social enterprise businesses. You can't see it, but I'm surrounded by certificates of completion from some of our apprentices, and some quite unusual stock items which are just out of camera.

So we applied for the funding from Esmée Fairbairn, as we'd already identified through the increase of apprentices who are neurodiverse, a training need for our staff to better understand both trauma and ASD, to enhance the support that we give to people on our schemes. So we were in the position of we knew what we needed and wanted, but we needed the financial support to be able to deliver suitable training. And having that clarity up front in terms of what we needed and wanted, it helped us to identify suppliers who could help us meet our needs.

So we actually used two different suppliers, one for the autism awareness training that we did, and one for the trauma-informed training. And it was really important in picking those providers that it was the right provider, and that they understood the areas, but they were also able to make the content of that training relevant to us and our organisational context, so we made sure they either knew or were aware of what we did. So the autism training was very bespoke training for us. The trauma-informed informed wasn't, but there was discussion with the training provider ahead of the delivery to ensure that the content was relevant.

And then one of the earliest slides that was talked about some of the barriers that organisations came across, and we were one of those organisations, and Esmée Fairbairn were very supportive throughout. Particularly, we had to tweak some of our plans on the delivery of the training, simply because, due to the staffing demands, it took longer to deliver the training than we originally envisaged. And what was really helpful is that Esmée were really flexible and willing to engage with us over those timescales, and really gave us quick answers, which helped us take this forward.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. Kevin, if you'd like to share a little bit more about about Graeae.

Kevin Walsh

Thank you. Yeah. My name is Kevin Walsh. I am Executive Director and joint CEO of Graeae. I'm a white bald man in his 40s in a blue shirt and glasses, and with a blurred background hiding my children's Lego chaos.

Graeae is a theatre company creatively led by disabled people. We create radical theatre, placing access at the heart of our work, and for a long time, we've been amplifying voices within the disabled community that face other barriers to inclusion or have been underrepresented on our stages.

However, in 2023 there was a notable shift in tone behind internal conversations we were having around race, religion, culture and disability. I was approached by a few people saying they were tired with fighting for the same things, and that self advocating was becoming exhausting. And, internally, a discussion around the disabling impact of war, led to tensions within our team about where and when we should speak publicly about matters that affect our wider community. This is in the context of being a national organisation. We were concerned about sending our artists and team into environments that would leave them vulnerable. So, our confidence around public advocacy was waning, so we approached Esmée Fairbairn about their Funding Plus programme. It was clear that we needed outside help to hold difficult conversations safely. People needed the opportunity to give critical feedback, and they had a right to learn from experts in the field. So we used our funds to invest in training for our team, safeguarding training, anti-racism training, and disability equality training as well.

Everyone attended, from senior managers to access workers and some board members as well. We all had access to the same learning. The training was led by Spotlight Inclusion, who I'd recommend to anyone, and we made some collectively agreed changes as a result. Anti-anti racism and anti-oppression is an agenda item on every company meeting each month. We're creating an ethical purchasing policy. We've reviewed our social media policy as well, and we've reviewed our recruitment procedures and the language that we use and that as well. And it led us to fundraising and creating a new role of a Community Advocacy Coordinator. Additionally, since then, we've invested in self-led anti-oppression learning for the team, and I've set aside funds in this year's budget to offer this for up to 60 people from our community of artists. This isn't a one-off investment. It's a long-term commitment to change. It means it remains on everyone's agenda. It's really important to us that we share our power with our community wherever possible. And we are a learning organisation, we get stuff wrong along the way, but we want to continue our learning in years to come.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you so much for already such rich stories and steps and changes that you've all already taken. So we have had a few questions come in from the audience here today, and one of them is around our disappointment that DEI is still seen as an optional add-on after all these years, and the sense that surely it's unforgivable that there are leaders who don't buy into DEI.

And I thought, actually, I'd come to Theresa first, just because you've got quite a broad understanding of the research, and then I'll come out to the panel members on that question, because it's something that we actually saw a little bit as well in the organisations, in terms of, there were some organisations that were much further ahead in their journey, and it was more about embedding, and other organisations where it was a little bit more of an add-on. So Theresa, I'm just wondering whether, there's something that you might want to share there, and then I'll bring the panel in.

Theresa Jones

Sure, yeah, there was a bit of context from some of the organisations that we heard from, and it seemed as if one of the challenges was in trying to align internally. So, different teams or different departments are at different stages, and then individuals within those teams are at different places on their own personal journey, because the personal journey is also part of this work as well.

And sometimes it seems like the focus, you know, when there's time spent on trying to align different teams, that can actually take the focus away from just coming together and being realistic about the fact that, look, we're all in different places, but we need to move forward. And so we were hearing that sort of push and pull sometimes.

And also because, I guess, often, as the question sort of sets up here, often it's seen as kind of a separate layer when it really should be embedded into everything. And, the organisations that were further ahead in their journeys were really finding ways t kind of live that in what they were doing, and looking for areas where they they maybe didn't have as much knowledge.

Or, we had a quote in the report where someone said, it's not necessarily about celebrating the 7 out of 10 people in the room who are there, it's also about asking us why the 3 out of 10 aren't there, and so starting to ask those questions.

But yeah, there's quite a few moving parts to it, as we can get into more detail.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you so much. So Saba coming to you because you're obviously very advanced in the work that you do, and also the areas that you're working in with Advocacy Academy.

I'm curious about what your thoughts are about, and the challenges as well, that comes with DEI maybe being an add-on, and the challenges of really embedding it as well within organisations.

Saba Shafi

Sure, I think I recall the question was about sort of disappointment. Are we disappointed? We are a social justice organisation, so justice and diversity are at the core of what we do, and we are still very much making mistakes all the time. And I think it's important to name that as a framing for, I guess, responding to the question, because I think that a lot has happened in the last few years to ensure that variations and improvements to a baseline of EDI or JEDI depending on what framework you use, has been embedded across more organisations.

To the question of like, yes, I think inevitably, anybody who has lived experience of injustice, should still feel angry that there is not more that is done. At the same time the charity sector, we should be honest with ourselves that it is in many ways a pressure valve to the existing inefficacy and problems with the current systems and societies that we live in today. Most of the work done by charities are not systemic. They are not encouraged to be either, and the lack of EDI in our sector is a reflection of our society as a whole.

For me, I think that's important to hold as a charity, because I think oftentimes when I have worked in this space, part of the issue is that there is the sense that working in the sector gives you this halo that you are already doing good work. And I think that is oftentimes the challenge to organisations and individuals truly accepting EDI work.

And that has also been my own personal challenge for myself. Where I oftentimes will come up and personal challenge and feel like I have done enough and too tired to do more. And I think that all of these pieces should be recognised.

I do tend to personally steer away from outrage, because the nature of the work that I do is to say, to reflect on my personal response, to consider what I am able to do to impact the bigger institutional and systemic piece, and to push forward again.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you so much Saba for picking up on that emotional component as well, and just, and just being really honest with ourselves and each other about this and really hear that exhaustion that can come through in terms of this work as well.

So, thank you. Kevin, would you like to respond to this question as well? There's no pressure to but if you would like to.

Kevin Walsh

Yeah, completely. I think we really recognise that sense of organisational exhaustion about kind of fighting for things that we thought were standard 20 years ago, and some things which actually we started to fight for 40 years ago. And sometimes you can feel like you are just fighting to be at the table, never mind trying to be a progressive organisation that is learning and evolving to a new landscape.

And so certainly, a lot of the deaf, disabled and neurodivergent people that are in our team absolutely recognise that kind of, that challenge behind self advocacy that you feel like you need to do in the middle of all of this, where actually you kind of want to elevate the conversation. This investment really helped with that. So it really helped us kind of take a step out from, or kind of spend time looking internally and looking at what we needed in order to be better for our wider community.

And we did need that. We needed that investment in time, in energy in order to do that, and it's helped us take that step forward and be a bit more confident again, around advocacy for our wider community.

But yeah, yeah, it's really disappointing that conversation about EDI is kind of, in some quarters anyway, you know, taking a hitting. But there's a lot of people out there that don't feel that way, and we just need to remind ourselves that there's just as many of those out there, and in our society that are fighting for positive change.

And the other just final thing is, it also kind of shows the importance of representational leadership as well. So kind of representation right the way across the organisation, from board to executive teams to anybody in a management position, you know, because those are the people that you want to fight for EDI and representation kind of across the whole of the organisation.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. And Dawn, is there anything you'd like to add to this question?

Dawn Hall

I suppose, just coming from us, or the angle that we dealt with it is, it's, I think from an EDI point of view, and particularly when we were looking at it through a disability and a learning disability lens, I think there is just recognising the difficulty that people with those learning disabilities have to try and get that even chance, and it's disappointing that, again, they still have to fight for it, and we're treated as quite a specialised employer, and that other employers don't take that chance on people.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. I think it feels a bit kind of building on what we've just been talking about. There's a question, if I can find it.... there we go, that's really about whether there's more specialist DEI support options in response to what we're kind of seeing play out at the moment in terms of, you know, the current crises driven by anti-migrant and sentiments.

And Kevin, just because of the journey that you've been on with Graeae, and part of what it sounds that you've been doing is wanting to address and speak out more about what is happening in the world. I'm curious about what your reflections might be on that as well. And then I'll come to Esmée to respond in terms of if there is any specialist support available that they're aware of.

Kevin Walsh

So I'm not aware of any specific organisations or any specific courses I would say that relate to DEI in that particular area, but we are working more broadly. You know, anti-oppression more generally is something that we are looking for in our next step. Was that what you meant or, sorry, could you ask me the question again?!

Taslim Tharani

It might not be the right question for you, but yeah, I was just curious about whether you had any thoughts on yourself in terms of, addressing the current crises driven by anti-migrant sentiment, but totally okay if not.

Kevin Walsh

Yeah, it is. It's something that's kind of in our minds a lot at the moment, and it kind of links with somebody else's point on there around working with an organisation that platforms working class people as well. You know, we work with people who are outside of the arts, people who are new to this conversation generally, and who are from white working-class communities.

You know, our current show Bad Lads is working in the North East of England with people who have been oppressed in a whole load of different ways, and don't share the learning that we've been through and all the things that we're passionate about, you know, around wider kind of representation in communities. And so we have to kind of set standards in how we work with them, and so we're asking everybody to sign up to our kind of code of conduct in terms of how they work, you know, with each other and with Graeae, and how people are respectful to others in the room. And it's only sometimes, when you're in the room with somebody, that you can then have that conversation around those kind of wider sentiments that are becoming, yeah, more prominent.

And yeah, we're not there yet, we're kind of on that journey, but it's something that comes up at Graeae a lot. And how do we create a safe space for our artists to work in those communities, whilst also platforming people who are excluded in other ways as well.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. So that question there about more specialist DEI support options, Shemain and Gina, just really curious as to what you've come across in terms of this, particularly in the kind of current context, and also knowing all the providers that you work with as well.

Gina Crane

So hi, I'm Gina Crane. I'm Director of Communications and Learning at Esmée Fairbairn Foundation. I'm a middle-aged white woman, and I've just found a meeting room to go into just in time to answer this question, which is really good!

So, I'm not sure I can answer that question exactly, but we can share more examples of potential providers in the transcript afterwards, and once we've had a chance to look into that. But there were a few different questions, if I can go into that, thinking about the rise in anti-migrant sentiment, the maybe pressure on DEI in general, and what funders think of that, that I can answer. So I'll just do that.

I think it's really important to start by saying that at Esmée, we are committed to diversity, to equity and to inclusion, both in our work, in our organisation, but also in supporting the organizations we fund to make progress towards equity and towards inclusion. And it's our job to respond to what organisations want, to respond to need, and to help them on their journeys, rather than dictate what those journeys might be.

I would say two things that we're really worried about or thinking about and active on at the moment, are thinking about wellbeing. So the wellbeing, particularly of those people working on the frontline, maybe in more grassroots organisations, or who have services, advice, support services. We've recently reached out to lots of organisations we fund to offer support, and heard back a real shocking number of instances of racist violence, particular threats, things that have happened to people that we fund, like direct things happening in the UK right now.

We can support them with help to sort of navigate this crisis situation, with their security, with their communications, with the help and support they can offer their staff and volunteers. But that's just a sticking plaster over this situation. So, we need to think about the lived experience of those people and how to support them going forward.

We also need to think about, as a sector, as a funder, as an organisation that is working for migrant justice or racial justice, or for children and young people's rights, how do we support those organizations to navigate this, and we can't do that by ourselves. So we are talking to other funders, to other organisations, particularly in the migration sector, to think about how can we offer support together? So that's something we're looking at and making a priority at the moment.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much. So, we've had another question come through. Oh, my screens just gone weird, which was around sharing about the learning culture, so, and I'll come to Theresa first, and then I might come to Dawn.

But the question was, can you share what some elements of a learning culture that were found which supported DEI work being meaningful?

So Theresa, if you could kind of share, yeah, what we found in the report, and then I'll, I'll branch out to the panel.

Theresa Jones

They were mainly around focusing on, you know, questions like, what don't we know right now or who are we not seeing? Or, you know, maybe things that have worked well in the past, what can we incorporate from that? So a lot of it was really about having that curiosity, and for that to work, there really has to be less defensiveness or less retreating.

The two don't really go well side by side, and sometimes that is where we heard about a bit of, you know, tension within organisations, where there's curiosity in one aspect, that then maybe there's more guardedness elsewhere, which can be quite difficult and sometimes slow the work down.

But, where organisations as a whole were kind of, you know, willing to be more vulnerable, asking questions that we don't really know the answers to, and we may get an answer to, a lot of the time, that common thread was around just exploring what we don't know yet and being okay with that taking shape in its own way.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. And yeah, Dawn, I'm just curious about what your response is to this? Because obviously, I'm more familiar with Jericho, and I know that your organisational culture already, I think was quite, there was a real readiness to really engage in the work that you did. So were there any elements do you think of the culture that existed already, that really enabled the work to be as effective as it was?

Dawn Hall

So I think because of what we do, and what we've been doing for quite a while, is the permanent staff that work within our businesses and support people that were with us on their programs, are really wanting to get the best for those people that join us on our programs. And I think the sense I had was that people felt they were doing their best, but they would have been doing it from a place of a lack of knowledge and understanding.

So for us, actually having a deep expert who works with people with autism, day in, day out, and had done for many years, to come in and deliver that training and talk to us about different approaches and best ways that we could consider to support those people on our programs was really helpful. So there was a real eagerness and wanting to learn, because it was from a point of view of trying to get the best for our scheme participants.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. Saba, coming to you next, we've got a question which is, just, what are the next steps for this work? And I know that you mentioned earlier on that you are looking at some kind of additional steps. So yeah, for you, what do you see as the the next steps in the work that you've already started?

Saba Shafi

I think this speaks to the learning culture piece. Incorporated in our culture is also the framework of our ideology and our practice, and it also includes not explicit reference to specific EDI policies, but rather speaks to the importance of anti-oppression in our work as a whole.

We want to create and invest in regular, potentially, quarterly culture of praxis in the organisation, so that staff members can come together to reflect on how we have been living our values and our culture. And then to understand, potentially, things that we can do to change that, or to improve them, or to celebrate things that have gone well. For us, this is an important next step, because there was quickly becoming a bottleneck to senior leaders to produce, prepare and distribute some of this development work, and also and it created a strange culture which didn't allow everybody to participate in what it would mean to make things better.

Rather than thinking about it from a place of a mission or depletion, we wanted to think about it from everybody being responsible for upholding these practices as a whole.

One of the things that is complex in our organisation, is that many of our senior, so the first top three layers of our charity, are filled with people with lived experience of injustice and have faced multiple lines of oppression. It is less so in more middle management layers, and more so again in more junior layers of the organisation, which has created interesting dynamics to navigate.

Which has also meant that it was important to create, whenever possible, broader conversations to allow for complexities of power dynamics to play out and be understood across the organisation.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. So I've got a couple of questions that I'm going to pose to you, Theresa and Amira, if you want to come in again, and then we'll start moving towards a bit of a wrap up. But we had two questions, which for, I guess, for the consultants more so. So the first was, how have the findings of this work impacted us as consultants in terms of our own perceptions, practices and work in this area? And the second, which I've now lost, maybe it was already answered, but it was, it's been moved. Okay, let's just go with that one first!

There was something about..., oh yeah, any questions that still remain from the research as well. So yeah, those two questions. So ,any questions that still remain, but also the impact of the research on us as consultants. So yeah, Amira and Theresa.

Amira Tharani

Yeah. So I think I responded to the kind of emerging questions piece in the chat, but I think for me, the big thing was about how does meaningful support around equity, diversity and inclusion reach out beyond the staff experience and staff demographics into the actual work of the organisation, what it does, how it does it, how it works with people, how it works with its communities.

You know, when are we going to stop calling the beneficiaries, for example, and what does that mean about change in power dynamic as that begins to shift? So, yeah, I think how can DEI move more into the actual work of the organisations? And that links a lot into what Saba's been saying about the role of the charity sector, and how the charity sector is implicated in some of the systems that lead to those marginalisations in the first place.

How has it changed my practice? I think in lots of ways it reinforced some of the things that I was already thinking about this work, and particularly the kind of importance of personal learning and transformation. And I think for me, it really reinforced that I need to keep checking myself, and challenging myself, and asking myself the same questions that we asked of our interviewees.

And I need to keep asking myself, well, where are the barriers to me doing my work in a more inclusive, more justice-focused, more justice-oriented way?

Theresa, I'll pass to you.

Theresa Jones

Thanks Amira. I think on that note, as well, with the language and that self reflection, would say what I've been left with from this, from this project, really, is that it the importance of language as a starting point, and it can be easy to overlook in a way, but I think hearing how organisations have gone from, 'I'm not sure what I should say', I'm not sure if I should say this or that' or maybe retreating, going from that to 'I don't know, but I'd like to find out' is really powerful.

And I think it was a really subtle yet powerful shift to hear about what the impact of that was, especially on those earlier stages in organisational journeys. And it's also informed me along this process, how I can also be more flexible during the project, whether it's during the setup and also the continuation of the project, and also how I show up and self-reflect.

And additionally, you know, coincidentally, when we started this research last year, I had just done a short course on decolonialising research, and a few things were kind of fresh in my mind from that as well, but really helped tie over into this, namely, just how safety building is often two-way. And that's obviously not to say that two individuals have the same power in the dynamic necessarily, but that it's, you know, for safety to be built, whether it's developing a shared language or anything else, it also requires safety to be accepted.

And then that also kind of brings up self-reflection and how safe I feel within my context, whether it's my community or even within myself. So that's something that, you know, that's really been left with me from the research.

And then, in terms of unanswered questions, I suppose less unanswered questions and maybe more voices and perspectives, because we could only speak to a limited number of people. I feel like we did a lot with the surveys, and we got a good spread with the, you know, reading the impact reports and balancing that out. And then with the 20 conversations we had across the 10 organisations, but I guess because we made sure that at least one person per organisation is quite senior, that also does reflect the fact that, you know, there isn't much diversity in senior leadership as well. So it skewed some of what we were hearing to that extent.

But that's also why, when we set up this research, we wanted to make sure that we heard from another staff member at a different level, and also took steps to ensure that we heard from different lived experiences. But I think, yeah, if maybe we were doing an expansion of this, that might be somewhere that we start.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you. And I just want to come in, actually, because I think my takeaways are actually more about how we work together as a team, more so around the research because obviously I could share similar things to what Amira and Theresa have shared.

But I think that from the moment that we came into contact with Esmée, there was such care about us as the researchers and as the consultants, and I think that was really powerful, like our working relationship has felt very equitable, very inclusive, even in terms of today, I have quite a few different conditions. I'm neurodivergent and also struggling with a head injury from a couple of years ago. And just knowing that on this team, I let Shemain know earlier in the week that I was having a bit of a tougher time, that I could ask Amira and Theresa to help me in the background, to kind of field the questions, and that really enabled me to still participate and still be involved, even when I'm feeling slightly under par.

So I think there's something really powerful around this kind of personal transformation piece, but just the way that we work with each other when we're engaging in this work, and actually that support and that safety that Theresa talked about is just so, so impactful.

And then the other thing for me, I think, is around the coaching. So as part of this work, we offered coaching to all the interviewees. And I can really see, even in my coaching practice, that my role as a coach is also to help my coaching clients identify the language that helps them to move forward in to move forward in this work. And, also just, we've talked about it before, but really just the empathy that is required to hold different people who are in different stages in their in their journeys as well.

So the final questions for our panel is, so would you benefit from further DE Funding Plus support? And, what's one thing you'd like people to remember from today's session? So, two questions in one, would you benefit from further DEI Funding Plus support, and what would you like people to remember from today? I will come to Kevin first.

Kevin Walsh

Thank you. I mean, yes, yes, we always kind of benefit from training and development, and investment in our principles. And yeah, absolutely, we will benefit from more in future.

I think the thing to take from today, for me is just, I think when funds are tight, it's really hard to justify, like investing heavily in staff training and development. This last few years we've all been trying to do more with less, generally, you know, and costs been going up, and this offer from Esmée, really, it made that concern irrelevant, and it meant that we could invest in what we needed as an organisation, at the time when we needed it.

I really valued the fact that it was such a quick turnaround, you know, we knew that we needed it, we asked, and then very quickly we were able to kind of make it happen. And, you know, it was a short intervention, but it's going to have a long-term impact. And some of that is going to be in training that we deliver other people, some is going to be in our productions and our shows and, you know, and whose stories we're able to tell on stage, but yeah, it was a really positive experience for us.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you, Kevin. Coming to Dawn next, so just a reminder, would you benefit from more DEI funding and then the next question, which is, yeah, just what's one thing you want to you want people to remember from today?

Dawn Hall

So I think probably Kevin's probably said an awful lot of the stuff that I was already already going to say. So lots of similar themes coming through. I think there's always scope to learn more, to improve what you do with DEI and the interventions you have with people, and how you can best support people to level that playing field. So undoubtedly, yes, there's more DEI training that we can do.

And I think my one big takeaway, which I reflected earlier, is it's really helpful when you go into this training to have a really clear idea about what you're looking to achieve from it and what your training need is, because when you've got to make best use of funding, you actually want to make sure that you're getting the best return on it by using it to tackle the need that you've already identified.

Taslim Tharani

Thank you, Dawn. And then finally, Saba,

Saba Shafi

Thank you. I think that targeted funding for DEI work was really important for us in that moment, to create space for specific initiatives that we were struggling to prioritise amidst other things. But I'm not sure I would say that the takeaway is that funders should provide more targeted DEI support necessarily.

I think that a Funders Plus option, treated equally, I would think of it more as important for funders to offer funding that allows organisations to respond to needs through the grant, including aspects to tackle ongoing issues internally in an organisation that can be addressed by DEI. I think more interesting is if funders would make it clear that investment in DEI is critical to securing funding in the first place, and I think that is a more interesting lever to push, because if I think of the levers that I have, the feedback I have given from funders, from why I don't win certain applications, the main pieces of feedback are around... I know that funders look for living wage accreditation, I know that funders look for if you have detailed monitoring, evaluation, analysis components, but I very rarely see if at all funders care about if you have genuinely considered anti-oppression in the work that you do.

And so my self-interest isn't necessarily aligned if I wasn't an organisation that was already centering social justice in its mission. And this goes back to my initial point of saying that if this is a systemic issue, rather than something about individual leaders, because on an individual basis, it is genuinely hard to truly make the kind of changes needed to accept different anti-oppressive frameworks. It is a systemic issue, and I think there's a reflection for funders to make in that space.

I think that the biggest takeaway for me from this space is, I think that piece around the learning culture, and I think somebody mentioned the framing and the connection to white supremacy, and people are really afraid of getting it wrong. Then on the flip side, what we often have to struggle with is people are obsessed with getting it right, and that is paralysing in a different way.

And there is the framing that I think we would use if you're sort of indulge me in giving an answer in full, is that you have to recognise that you can't be neutral on a moving train, and you have to apply strategic and intersectional analysis, and you also have to recognise that justice will look different to different people, and that there is no one truth or one version of the world as it should be, and that different organisations and groups are all trying to make the world better and more just, and that there are inherently biases in our work.

We cannot always take every moment to find the time to reflect on this tension. And you have to believe in taking action today while also balancing values, culture, and the practicalities. And then, I think it is about giving yourself space to reflect as you go.

Taslim Tharani

Yeah, thank you very much. That's a really powerful way, I think, to end our our panel conversation and discussion. So I just want to say a huge thank you to to Gina and Shemain and the Esmée team, like I said, for just the opportunity to really engage in this work and, yeah, just for the way that we worked together as well.

And a huge thank you to our panel members, Dawn, Kevin Saba, for your time, for your energy, for your input, for your, just, for your honesty and vulnerability in what you shared. And then also Theresa and Amira, just for being, yeah, brilliant co-workers in this space, and yeah, and I will hand over now to Shemain to wrap up.

Shemain Wahab

Thank you so much, and I just want to echo that. I just want to say a huge and heartfelt thanks to you all, Tas, Amira, Theresa, Dawn, Kevin, Saba, and the Esmée team for all your hard work, your honesty, your energy, your care in creating the report and contributing to this session. It's been really insightful. And also to Gloria and Altan for providing their interpretation skills. And lastly, just to say, thank you so much for everyone who attended and engaged with this session. I hope you found it useful.

If you still have questions, please get in touch, and we'll see if we can get those answered and a recording of the session, and the transcript will be shared on our website in due course. So what's left to say is goodbye, and I hope you have a great rest of the day and week. Thank you.

Additional questions - questions are highlighted in bold

Did funded organisations ever need support to identify providers?

Shemain: Organisations did ask for this support, and we are able to provide peer recommendations from previous Funding Plus recipients.

Could you give examples of shared language that could exist in a global organisation with projects and offices in countries that differ on DEI language and practices?

Amira: Our research was with UK-based charities, so we didn't hear from organisations who were working globally. I believe that Bond offers some support around this.

Could you explain what the funding plus support is?

Shemain: Funding Plus is additional support Esmée offers to organisations we fund with grants or social investments. It can be used for consultancy or training that builds capacity, skills or knowledge. Its aim is to help organisations to make the most of opportunities, deal with challenges, and to commission support they might not otherwise be able to afford or prioritise.

Our annual budget for funding plus is £1m and we give most of this in individual funding plus awards for organisations to spend on what they need, up to £9,000 each. We give the money to the organisations so that they can commission and manage the themselves, including choosing the right provider. You can find out more on the Funding Plus section on our website and the Applying for funding plus page.

How self directed is the support? Do partners tell you what they want, or do you have packages, or consultants they choose from?

Shemain: Funding Plus is responsive and designed to meet individual needs. Organisations receive tailored support, from their choice of provider(s).

Was the funding plus support for BME organisations or anyone funded through Esmée Fairbairn ?

Shemain: Funding Plus is available to all organisations in receipt of a current grant or social investment.

If you aren't currently funded by Esmée are there any other options to find support for DEI?

Shemain: Funding Plus is only available to organisation we fund, but there are a range of DEI resources available here.

Do you ever suggest to organisations to access funding plus to work on their approach to DEI? Or does it always come organically from them?

Shemain: Both options. Ultimately, it's the organisation's choice whether to use Funding Plus for DEI work, or something else.

Did Esmée convene/bring these organisations together to support peers along the way? If yes, how often did Esmée do this?

Shemain: We didn't convene organisations for the DEI work, as support was received in different years, and based on individual timeframes and needs. We have convened organisations around different topics of interest through Funding Plus.

Did the findings reveal any salient enemy/friend of progress?

Amira: Friends - having a learning culture, being clear about the specific DEI need you want to address.

Enemies - short-term thinking, constantly firefighting and not having time or space to do any strategic development.

In a more nuanced sense, if organisations were doing DEI because they felt they should, but it wasn't coming from a genuine need, or there wasn't a specific issue they wanted to address, they found it harder to embed DEI work.

We’ve been having conversations about keeping everyone safe in participatory spaces while upholding our values. We don’t want to silence differing views, and we want people - many of whom are young - to feel safe and listened to, even if their views are in the minority. Are you aware of any providers who offer training or support in this area, such as boundary-setting or related skills?

Amira: The Esmée team can hopefully recommend some specific providers. Have you looked into Lewis Deep Democracy? I'm not entirely familiar with it but I know that it's focused on supporting democratic conversation and getting underneath different views to the emotional and value-based drivers of those views.

Can you share what some elements of a learning culture that were found which supported DEI work being meaningful?

Amira: Another key aspect of a learning culture was a willingness to be challenged, within a context of trust and strong relationships in the organisation.

I am thinking about risks to safety, security and communications advice (e.g. some charities having to remove staff and Trustee photos/bios from websites).

Amira: The Esmée Fairbairn team may have some specific advice on this. I know that Paul Hamlyn Foundation have been supporting their Migration Fund grantees with emergency funding for safety and security, so it might be worth speaking to colleagues there.

Shemain: A few resources in this post that we shared recently - Our support and solidarity to everyone we work alongside - We are also working with some of our partners to look at what support we can provide as Gina mentioned.

Echoing this, this has affected our organisation (managing risk and safety on our communications, in repsonse to anti-migrant crisis).

Shemain: There are a few resources here around this, including information from Hope Not Hate on work in communities; as well as support for organisations on safety and security.

Were there any questions that remained, which the research wasn't able to answer?

Amira: Some questions for further exploration: What are the organisational factors that support DEI to be embedded when staff turnover is high? How can DEI be brought out of HR and staffing and into organisational strategy and delivery?

Do you think some organisations default to training rather than investing in things like audits, strategy and planning?

Amira: I think some do - and when it's not bespoke to the organisation, it works less well. However, audits, strategy and planning were generally harder to embed without training and coaching alongside them. The most effective was either bespoke training to meet a specific need, or audits/strategy/planning responding to a clear organisational brief and with training and consultancy built in.